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Tuesday, September 19, 2006

Reformed Apologetics: Defunct and Disillusioned

I chanced across an interesting post by Mark (tartanarmy) at the Unchained Radio forums. In a thread discussing whether atheists could comprehend absolute truth, he burst out with the following:

I don't see how we can communicate with Atheists. How does that work? I know “evidentialism” is an inferior type of apologetic argument, but is not the presup stuff useless too?
I mean, with the “noetic” effects and all, where does it lead us?
I can see his point. If you assume that everyone who disagrees with you is necessarily mentally handicapped, what's the point of evangelizing? Well... because God tells them to, apparently.

I think we should just believe in scripture, quote it, and leave the results in God's hands.
I also believe we need to get involved, interact with these guys and just be a witness to them as much as is possible, that they may come to be convicted and own their sin.
I'm not sure how "being a witness" is supposed to help. Supposedly, hearing the Gospel message is all it takes to cause conviction.

Am I way off beam here, or what?
I know the TAG and other well thought out stuff makes them look stupid, but what’s the point? We know that already from scripture before we even engage them.

I don't think I need to comment on the idea of the TAG being classified as "well thought out."

Help me understand. I keep waiting to see them reduced to the point where they kind of get it, but it never happens. I keep waiting to see if they then try to defend their position from an internal critique of it, but it never happens, nor do they ever even seem remotely interested in finding out how we critique other kinds of religious beliefs.

I am a bit disillusioned. Please give me some advice about this?
Dustin?, Gene? Paul? What say you fine guys?
If I could offer some input- maybe the reason why we atheists aren't "reduced" to Christianity is because we actually have some good reasons for rejecting Christian claims. I know this is hard to accept and understand when you have to assume that atheists don't exist in the first place, but such is your travail.

I kinda feel sorry for the guy. It makes me think of someone in a mental hospital, depressed, and saying, "What's the point of even trying to muster the troops if nobody in here believes I'm actually Napoleon?"

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6 Comments:

At 9/19/2006 6:54 PM, Blogger Aaron Kinney declaimed...

Those clowns should watch more Colbert Report. Now THERES a guy with some logic behind his Christian beliefs! These guys could learn a few things from Colbert's killer evangelistic style.

LOL seriously though, I will deliciously absorb all their expressed frustration as they watch the faithless in America increase in number with each passing year. Oh, the beauty of it all. They will watch the belief in their imaginary space ghost continue to wither right before their eyes.

I mean, that guy is right when he says that all they can do is recite Biblical passages and hope for the best. Yet those Biblical passages simply cant compete with materialism and rationality. The last thing those guys will be able to admit to themselves, or even understand, is that their Biblical passages are wholly inferior to the arguments from science and logic. It will make them pull their hair out in frustration.

 
At 9/20/2006 9:33 PM, Blogger Bill Snedden declaimed...

I know the TAG and other well thought out stuff makes them look stupid, but what’s the point? We know that already from scripture before we even engage them.

Well, TAG certainly makes someone look stupid, but it's not the atheist...

Help me understand. I keep waiting to see them reduced to the point where they kind of get it, but it never happens. I keep waiting to see if they then try to defend their position from an internal critique of it, but it never happens, nor do they ever even seem remotely interested in finding out how we critique other kinds of religious beliefs.

My ironymeter just broke. When did anyone ever hear a presupp'er actually defend their position? When did one ever actually internally critique any other position?

I am a bit disillusioned. Please give me some advice about this?

I'd be disillusioned too if I suddenly realized I'd been taught drivel in the guise of philosophy...

 
At 9/21/2006 12:36 AM, Blogger olly declaimed...

The funniest thing about all of this is that in the end, all they have is faith... so when those of us who realize that faith is bullshit don't fall back on it, they don't know what to do with themselves.

-olly

 
At 9/21/2006 12:22 PM, Blogger Tom Foss declaimed...

Hopefully this won't sound too boneheaded, but what is TAG? You know, besides a children's game and rank-smelling bodyspray?

 
At 9/21/2006 5:02 PM, Blogger Zachary Moore declaimed...

Here are some links to help you out.

Wikipedia

Internet Infidels

StrongAtheism.net

 
At 12/11/2006 11:09 AM, Blogger Tartanarmy declaimed...

Greetings one and all.

I have actually grasped the TAG argument much better since then, and see the wisdom in certainly using it against Atheism. It's actually quite beautiful when one understands the sheer force of the argument.

And yes we have faith, but so much more. Our faith in God and His Word comports to reality as we know it.

You guys have faith too, but think that science and logic is on your side.

It's not. You guys are merely borrowing those concepts from our Christian worldview.

Take care.
Mark

 

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