Internet Goosing the Antithesis

Thursday, March 23, 2006

Christians proven less moral... AGAIN

As if we needed MORE evidence...

Pew Poll - September and October 2005

Percentage of people who oppose torture in most or all circumstances
Catholics - 49%
Average - 53%
Protestants - 55%
Secular - 57%

I'm surprised so many Catholics are against torture. Haven't they read the book of Job ?

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At 3/23/2006 5:07 PM, Blogger Steve declaimed...

Hmm... Apparently not.

At 3/23/2006 6:27 PM, Blogger Aaron Kinney declaimed...

Of course Christians arent against torture as much as secular people are.

Christians favorite movie is a torturous snuff flick. Christians uphold the ultimate cosmic master-slave relationship as morally superior (barf!)

Christians dont understand slef-ownership. Even Manata rejected self ownership proudly in his abortion post. He, like most all Christians, think everything belongs to God so whatever you do in his name is a-ok.

At 3/23/2006 8:59 PM, Blogger Zachary Moore declaimed...

Actually, Catholics are 6% more likely than any other group to think that torture is "often" justified.

Religious people are also more likely to sacrifice civil liberties than secular people.

I also noticed that people reporting as "secular" are a healthy 12%. That's good to see.

At 3/23/2006 10:27 PM, Blogger TheJollyNihilist declaimed...

I have another passage to quote from the great book "Atheist Universe," which pertains to the topic at hand:

"For 1500 years, the Christian Church systematically operated torture chambers throughout Europe. Torture was the rule; not the exception. Next to the Bible, the most influential and venerated book in Christian history was the Malleus Maleficarum (Hammer of Witches), which was a step-by-step tutorial in how to torture 'witches' and 'sorcerers.' Each year, the Christian Church in Europe tortured to death tens of thousands of people, including children as young as two years of age"

Me, on the other hand? I'm an atheist. I'm also associated with Amnesty International.

At 3/23/2006 10:28 PM, Blogger Young Physicalist declaimed...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 3/23/2006 10:32 PM, Blogger Young Physicalist declaimed...

Note: I deleted the above post because I wrote "12" rather than "2" percent.

The percentile separating secularists from Protestants is merely two percent. I wouldn’t sensationalize such findings. After all, almost 40 % of the irreligious support torture under certain (unspecified) circumstances.

At 3/24/2006 12:01 AM, Blogger Paul Manata declaimed...

Aaron, since you hi-jacked my thread, I thought you wouldn't mind if I posted osmething off-topic. Now's your turn to shine,

At 3/24/2006 1:08 AM, Blogger Pavielle declaimed...

Hmmmmm... You know, I think you guys are kind of freaky. I'm a Christian. I love God. I am moral. I am an unmarried virgin. I have never smoked or gotten drunk. I believe in the sanctity of human life and dignity. So do most Christians... at least TRUE Christians. Anyway, I can understand where you guys are coming from. I live in the secular world. but I bet you have noo idea what it truly means to be a Christian. If you did, you could explain it clearly and conciesly in one sentence. Let me give you a hint: It has nothing to do with Church, the Bible, morality, concervatism, preachers, etc. Anyone know what really makes someone a Christian? Can't wait to see all the silly answers. Anyway, until you know, don't knock it so much. That isn't showing much "tolerance." What a horrible word.. "tolerance." it implies not really caring for something, but just ignoring or respecting it. Christians are actually commanded not only to tolerate those whose opinions are different from them, but to love them.
Anyway, get off topic...Actually, I too am opposed to torture, but that is not really the important issue... The real question is, what is morality? Why is there a debate about torture? The debate implies an objective morality. So what is it? Okay.. here is what I see, correct me if I am wrong;

Moral Truth: Huamans deserve life and personal dignity.

Everyone believes this, yes? Christans, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Pantheists, ect, ect, ect? Okay, I thought so.

Right, so now the tricky question comes... How do we gaurentee it as it relates to torutre?

Well, a majority secular people examine the moral truth stated above and immediately say that torture violates this truth and is therefore immoral.

A majority of Christians by contrast, look at torture from a utilitarian point of view. In other words, if the lives and dignity of many can be saved through the torture of one person, then toture is founded.

Who is right? Hard to say... But this I know for a fact: Neither side is moral or immoral but a curious mix of both. Or world neccesitates that. If there were no evil, there would be no need for torture to even be considered. Morality is objective...but the means to obtaining such morality is not. thus, to call Christians immoral becuase of their perspective is faulty.

At 3/24/2006 1:15 AM, Blogger Pavielle declaimed...

Oh yeah, the crusade and torture things? Those weren't Christians. They may have claimed to be, but if they truly had beed. they wouldn't have done those things.

Religion is dead, but I believe that God is alive. Actually, Christianity, in its purest form isn't even a religion. Bet you didn't know that. Actually, many true Christians consider religion to be one of the biggest causes of damnations on earth.

Let me note this: Christians believe that God gives free will. he does not want love or submissoin that is forced becuase it is false. So, if those supposed Christians had known that (They should have if they really knew God), why would they have tortured people in order to make them conform to Christianity?

At 3/24/2006 1:43 AM, Blogger Francois Tremblay declaimed...

Straw man, straw man, No Trus Scostman fallacy, No Trus Scostman fallacy, unsubstanciated belief... pavielle, do you have anything intelligent to say ? This is an atheist blog, you twit.

At 3/24/2006 5:10 AM, Blogger Francois Tremblay declaimed...

I never said that the 2% was a great improvement. It just proves that the Christian claim to morality is wrong yet again.

At 3/24/2006 7:57 AM, Blogger Zachary Moore declaimed...

"A majority of Christians by contrast, look at torture from a utilitarian point of view. In other words, if the lives and dignity of many can be saved through the torture of one person, then toture is founded."

And now you know why Christianity is immoral. Congratulations.

At 3/24/2006 10:41 AM, Blogger Steve declaimed...

It's unfortunate that so many people need to believe in fairy tales, in order to give their lives meaning. I think they're quite correct when they refer to themselves as "children" of God.

At 3/24/2006 2:10 PM, Blogger Pavielle declaimed...

Too bad you guys have to resort to personal attacks. But this unintelligent twit still loves God. Besides, what is the point of a totally unchallenged atheist blog. About as silly as a totally unchallenged Christian blog. And my point was that most Christians are trying to achieve moral ends. They are just a bit misguided in achieving these ends. Geez.... I simply try to make you see where Christians are coming from and you flip. My point required no evidence for or agianst God, just a bit of analysis of the human mind set.

At 3/24/2006 2:22 PM, Blogger Pavielle declaimed...

By the way, I still have yet to see a good definition of Chrisitanity.

At 3/24/2006 2:37 PM, Blogger Pavielle declaimed...

I guess I just wanna know what your guys point is. You don't seem to truly be concerned with uplifiting people to what you consider to be true (atheism) and allowing them individuality. In fact, all you seem to care about is bashing Christians. Interesting that you attack no other religions or faiths. Anyway, from what I can see you have no real purpose. You are all simply unkind, cynical, and unhappy. True Christians don't bash atheists for your info. Are you so displeased with yourselves that you will lash out at anyone and anything who has actually found true happiness in something that you consider false. Hey, I consider atheism false. But if you could find true happiness and goodness in it, then far be it from me to try and change you. Unfortunately, none of you seem really very happy. That is so sad.

I thought it might be nice if you knew a bit more about the person you seem to be having fun ragging on, namely me:

I am a senior in high school, and am looking foreward to attending college on a presidential scholarship next year. I am a girl, in case the name didn't give it away. My parents are divorced and I live with my mom, grandma, and sister. I am an existentialist and am interested in studying genetics. I love God and want to do his will. I have three close friends. One is Catholic, one is atheist, and one is methodist. I am a non-denominational Christian. I am extremely economically liberal. I am also socially liberal becuase I do not believe that any religion can or should force others to follow their rules. I believe in seperation of church and state, think that Bush is an awful president, and enjoy political debate. My favorite movie is Farenheit 911. Sometimes my mom and sister argue. I hate conflict and think the war in Iraq is stupid.

I could go on. But my point is that there is so much more than just the stereotypical "Christian." If you haven't noticed I am a person. And I hate to sound whiny, but it is hurtful when you guys simply rag on me and my faith without any basis, when you laugh at that which I hold most dear. If you are trying to change minds, you are not going about it very well.

At 3/24/2006 2:44 PM, Blogger Francois Tremblay declaimed...

Great, did you get it all out of your system pavielle ? Are you going to shut up now ?

At 3/24/2006 2:59 PM, Blogger Pavielle declaimed...

Nope. Sorry. I will continue to be a pest, my good friend Francois. Geez, no kindness at all. Dude. All right. Here it is. Even if you can't be kind, I will be:

Francois, it is wonderful to see someone so dedicated to their cause. You seem very intelligent and driven. These are great traits. I hope you live a wonderful, full life.

At 3/24/2006 3:23 PM, Blogger Zachary Moore declaimed...

"By the way, I still have yet to see a good definition of Chrisitanity."

Ha, Ha! Neither have I.

At 3/24/2006 3:29 PM, Blogger Zachary Moore declaimed...

"And I hate to sound whiny, but it is hurtful when you guys simply rag on me and my faith without any basis, when you laugh at that which I hold most dear."

"Without any basis?" Are you kidding? Look, it's great that you're such a sweetheart and a nice person and all, but spend some time reading through this blog. There's a year's worth of posts showing in detail how Christianity is immoral.

Once you've realized how immoral Christianity is, you'll laugh with us too.

At 3/24/2006 4:10 PM, Blogger Hellbound Alleee declaimed...

The questions to ask the christian:

Is Jesus a savior?
What is he saving us from?
Do you believe in Hell?
If you do, then you support torture. If you do, then you support torture for thought crimes. At that point, the conversation is over. You love God who tortures people for thought crimes. Go talk to someone who you don't think should be tortured.

At 3/24/2006 5:59 PM, Blogger Francois Tremblay declaimed...

Oh just shut the fuck you Christian scum.

At 3/24/2006 6:07 PM, Blogger Pavielle declaimed...

Fine. I will go away. You guys will believe what you want to and I will believe what I want to. But just so you know, Francois, I care about you and will pray for you. Makes you angry, huh? Sorry about that.

At 3/24/2006 9:54 PM, Blogger Aaron Kinney declaimed...


True Christians don't bash atheists for your info.

You are factually wrong. The mere doctrines of Christianity insist that atheists can't even exist; that they are fools deceiving themselves. The doctrines of Christianity also promise us infidels the most horrible torture imaginable for all of eternity.

Christians believe that we are fools, and that we are going to suffer incredibly for disagreeing with them.

The ideology of Christianity itself contains "bashing" and a whole lot more: horrible threats, personal insults, and outright denial of the possibility of us even sincerely having the worldview we claim to have.

So do you agree now that "True" Christians do much, much worse than simply "bash" atheists?

At 3/25/2006 3:51 AM, Blogger Pavielle declaimed...

No actually I don't agree. But matter what I say in response you will find a way to twist it to your advantage, so what is the point? I'll be the first to admit I am not the brightest, but I am earnest. I mean what I say and I say what I mean. Sorry you feel bashed upon by Christians. I guess that is something you will have to deal with on your own. There is an answer to your question by the way, but since you already seem to have all the answers you want, I am not going to go on. Frankly, I'm tired. If you truly want an answer on this question then you are free to contact me through my blog and I will e-mail you. But since I think you have already made up your mind, I doubt you will bother.

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