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Wednesday, December 07, 2005

Question of the Day #15: Memetics

Could there ever be a meme that defeats religious thinking? For example, could there ever be a meme that forces a Christian to recognize his own fallacious arguments, thus causing him to stop using them?

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23 Comments:

At 12/07/2005 1:29 AM, Blogger MoNoMo declaimed...

You'll able to make a meme to defeat religious thinking when you can take a candid nude shot of the pasty atheists who post on this blog that could give a true Christian woman a hard-on.

 
At 12/07/2005 3:31 AM, Blogger Mr. Neil declaimed...

Spoken like a true asshole.

I ask these questions out of personal interest; not as a free speech forum for dumbasses. I expect serious responses to these questions. I don't need apologist clowns disrupting my posts.

 
At 12/07/2005 8:32 AM, Blogger Niels declaimed...

Memes don't thrive on logic. Logic and critical thinking is acid to them.

 
At 12/07/2005 8:57 AM, Blogger Zachary Moore declaimed...

I think the Christian memeplex may have one of the highest levels of fitness, period. It had a few centuries to select out competing variations on the meme, and has been gradually altering itself to become more resistant since then.

Although it is interesting to see that the memeplex is much more prevalent in America than in Europe, for example. What is the competing memeplex that causes this phenomenon?

 
At 12/07/2005 11:35 AM, Blogger Francois Tremblay declaimed...

Zach : my guess is socialism.

 
At 12/07/2005 12:00 PM, Blogger Zachary Moore declaimed...

That might be an interesting topic for a future meme-themed blog entry.

Hint, hint.

 
At 12/07/2005 12:06 PM, Blogger Francois Tremblay declaimed...

Huh ? Are you hinting at me ?

 
At 12/07/2005 12:10 PM, Blogger mathyoo declaimed...

It's not socialism, it's the kind of education, combined with exposure to different cultures. In Europe and the UK, unless children live in VERY rural areas, they are very likely to see people from different countries and cultures on a regular basis, exposing them to different religions (and to no religion), and to learn not only tolerance, but acceptance. Most education systems outside of the US are stronger in critical thinking, science, literature, etc. Here in the US, children, especially in the Bible Belt, are unlikely to be exposed to any culture than their own, and if such exposure does happen, their parents and community have already embedded a deep distrust of other cultures and belief systems. The US education system has also been dumbed down to accommodate the lowest common denominator (which is often pretty low!) rather than to foster a love of learning and to challenge gifted, or even average students.

In Europe and the UK, where religion is losing importance and power, children learn to respect intelligence and education. In the US, children (again, especially in the Bible Belt) are taught that intellectuals are to be sneered at and derided. Being a good football player or cheerleader is more important than getting good grades. Following NASCAR is more important than reading a book. Aspiring to a career in the military is preferred to going to college and becoming a teacher, business manager, or doctor.

Only when a meme "evolves" that makes intelligence and education more important than who's playing footbal on Sunday after church will a meme defeat religion, and I don't think that's possible. As zachary said, the christian memeplex (or the religious memeplex in general) is extremely "fit" and has mechanisms in place that virtually guarantee it's survival-early indoctrination, exile/castigation/suspicion of non-believers, etc.

 
At 12/07/2005 12:11 PM, Blogger Aaron Kinney declaimed...

If you could get some kind of science-based meme, then yes. But I dont see how thats possible.

Science is virtually its own language, and its alot harder to learn than Christian memes are. Its funny that you brought this up because just last night on Cosmos, Carl Sagan was talking about how science is the one universal language.

See, with science you have to think, but with Christianity all you have to do is surrender your thinking.

 
At 12/07/2005 12:13 PM, Blogger Aaron Kinney declaimed...

Oh Maureen, I forgot to tell you.

All the hottest women are atheists. And they fuck way better than any Christian girls. Trust me, I know.

 
At 12/07/2005 1:35 PM, Blogger Zachary Moore declaimed...

mathyoo-

Is it possible that the American Christian memeplex has evolved differently than the European Christian memeplex?

What I mean is, does American Christianity also include xenophobia and intellectual inbreeding as a way to protect it from the cultural forces weakening European Chrsitianity?

 
At 12/07/2005 1:35 PM, Blogger Zachary Moore declaimed...

Aaron-

Second that.

 
At 12/07/2005 1:59 PM, Blogger Hellbound Alleee declaimed...

Maureen:

Sexy hot non-pasty Christian Men?

And these are generally NOT candid:

Randall Terry
Dobson
Santorum
Pat Robertson
Now THAT's HOT!!

 
At 12/07/2005 2:07 PM, Blogger Hellbound Alleee declaimed...

Hot atheist men:

Lance Armstrong
Ira Glass (YUM)
Bruce Lee
Keanu Reeves
Trent Reznor

(Female) Angelina Jolie--pasty?

Anyway, of course it's pointless. Many people are ugly. SOme of them happen to be as ugly as you are. But Christians FAR from corner the market on beauty. And since we are not shallow, we do not consider beauty to be the measure of a man, unlike you, Maureen, who is as shallow as you are dense.

 
At 12/07/2005 6:31 PM, Blogger Aaron Kinney declaimed...

Maureen has a blog entitled "Dying in Christ" and she likes to post Bible verses with the word "sodomite" in red.

I think Maureen is a deity-necrophiliac and prefers anal sex to vaginal sex.

If a female prefers it up the ass, does that count as gay? I mean, it IS still sodomy.

 
At 12/07/2005 7:29 PM, Blogger MoNoMo declaimed...

Hellbound Alleee, you think Lance Armstrong is hot? That man has no balls. I only believe in sex for procreation's sake, so that guy is out of the picture.

Aaron asks: "If a female prefers it up the ass, does that count as gay? I mean, it IS still sodomy."

Prefering "it up the ass" is only gay for a lady if the "it" you refer to is made out of latex. That would be sex without procreation -- once again, a big no-no.

The fundamental error of atheist morality is your blithe acceptance of either utilitarianism or libertarianism. Once you admit that pleasure or "freedom" is the be-all and end-all of life, you're only two steps away from the gas chambers. Trust me, no atheist society has ever succeeded at preserving liberty or happiness for very long. Only in the Christian USA can your beloved capitalism thrive -- thanks to those "memes" of faith and trust and hard work which you would overturn if given the chance. God gave those gifts to us to secure the Kingdom for the Lord.

You atheists might be a bunch of fucking dope-smoking, ass-worshipping jackanapes, but hey, you're fun. Christians can turd-munching pricks at times -- I'll admit. Some would take issue with my liberal usage of Saxon vocabulary, but they can go fuck themselves. The Bible ain't got nothing 'gin it, and Jesus could curse like a motherfucker -- and yeah, I'm sure you little shits could prove to me with your cute crayon dialectics that Jesus really was a motherfucker. I've heard it all before, and I really don't care if you damn your meatbags to Hellfire for the dubious pleasure of insulting my friend the Holy Spirit.

Whatev. I'm gonna sit here and eat my wings and down a glass of beer everytime you kids use the word the word "reality" unsardonically. 'Taint no such thang, fools.

BTW -- you don't like my blog, Aaron? I highlighted all the words of sin, to make it more "edutaining" for little kids like you. Oh I forgot you're a real man, 'cause you fuck girls. Atheist girls. Them girls is nothing but a bunch of skank ho easy bitches. Trust me, I used to be one.

Then the Lord turned my face towards Him.

 
At 12/07/2005 8:05 PM, Blogger Niels declaimed...

Maureen, you're presupposing the wrong beliefs. The correct religion is obviously Hinduism, has noone told you when you were growing up?

 
At 12/07/2005 11:00 PM, Blogger Zachary Moore declaimed...

Maureen-

Wow. With Christians like you, who needs atheists?

 
At 12/08/2005 12:11 AM, Blogger The Atheist Messiah declaimed...

Maureen, I'm sure you've been a lot of things (mainly confused), but atheist would not be one of them. Just because you may have once doubted your "Jesus motherfuckin' Christ" once during an akward sexual encounter doesn't qualify you as an atheist.

AK, it's funny you mentioned Cosmos. I watched that last night too. I've asked for that DVD set for 2 years in a row for Jesusmotherfuckin'Christmas and still haven't gotten it.

I think mathyoo hit the nail on the head. And the American Christian meme is definately varying in large degrees compared to all the other European sects. I would have to say our particular strain compares very closely to Islamic fundamentalism.

 
At 12/08/2005 10:30 AM, Blogger mathyoo declaimed...

"mathyoo-

Is it possible that the American Christian memeplex has evolved differently than the European Christian memeplex?

What I mean is, does American Christianity also include xenophobia and intellectual inbreeding as a way to protect it from the cultural forces weakening European Chrsitianity?"

I think you're on to something Zachary. The christian meme definitely contains an element of xenophobia (and a strong one at that, if you read the old testament), but in Europe, it's tougher to remain isolated in your own little community. Even if you yourself never really leave your area, people from other nations and other backgrounds travel all over europe, even in the rural areas, so you, as well as the people around you, would be exposed to different points of view. Those conditions would cause the meme to evolve differently, since xenophobia would not be a desirable trait and thus harder to pass on to your children. Same with the intellectual inbreeding.

 
At 12/08/2005 10:32 AM, Blogger mathyoo declaimed...

"All the hottest women are atheists. And they fuck way better than any Christian girls. Trust me, I know."

Aaron, you're forgetting about Catholic schoolgirls...

 
At 12/08/2005 1:02 PM, Blogger Zachary Moore declaimed...

Mathyoo-

Interesting. I wonder if the modern religious culture of America would have been more European if it had been colonized by Christian, Muslim, and Jewish countries instead of just by Christian countries.

 
At 12/09/2005 12:18 PM, Blogger mathyoo declaimed...

Zachary

That's quite possible. I think that the economics of the early US had a lot to play in the matter too, especially in the deep south and the midwest. The plantation/slavery culture of the south, with the economy resting so heavily on slave labor, and using religion to help control the slaves, surely has had a deep and lasting impact on that region. The Civil War, while having many good outcomes (like eliminating slavery) just deepened the "Us vs. Them" mentality so inherent in fundamentalist religions. That meme is a very difficult one to counteract.

 

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